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Police Loadouts & Robbing Police


Kellan
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Within BlueBird, the current "meta" is bikes/cars with either a sawn off or ap. The current state of weapons in city is terrible and reasons like unavailibility and rarity of some of the bigger guns makes it difficult to use anything other then the sawn off and ap with these being easily accessable to the public. The risk of losing anything makes us as criminals not want to use top tier guns because of many different factors.

Rarity of guns come into play before anything, things like snipers, smgs and rifles that were originally brought through the old black market system, are either not craftable or purchasable through anyone and eventually all of the old guns will fade forever because of being lost to police or players not flying in anymore from those days.

Apart from the older people not flying in with more rare guns, I feel there needs to be a system in place where police have a specific loadout when going on duty and that is locked to their inventory until they eventually clock off. During the shift, additional items/guns like for example a Micro SMG that aren't apart of the "orginal loadout" that were taken from a criminal after being arrested, we as the criminal should have the ability to overpower a singular/few officer(s) to then have that SMG returned to the criminals. Unlike todays system, once the gun has been taken from the criminal after being searched you can consider it gone and locked away in the armoury 99.9% of the time.

This feature would bring different varietys of rp situations to both police and criminal as this would add more fear for police in situations because they have to be careful of what they keep in their pockets, making sure they confiscate weapons in the armoury after arrest, instead of going back out with those same weapons with no consequences. Although I do truly see this as a positive rp feature going forward, like before it could be heavily abused and people who abuse robbing police and make that their sole focus for their every day rp should risk losing their whitelist.

This would obviously be restricted to whitelist use only.
 

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Even if its whitelist only it just makes police more of a target than they already are, hard disagree. If shotguns and AP's in cars is the most effective then you should equip backup further away with those bigger guns, yes they are going to lose sometimes but I think the split of small arms to military grade weapons is good.

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I've talked at length with other staff about making cops infinite pockets a bit more limited. That said, I don't think we'd ever want to do anything to increase the frequency that cops are attacked or targeted. Criminals already soak up vast amounts of cop time with banks and armaguard that it's tough to respond to regular civilian calls. Making them targets for theft would pull them away from serving the city at large even more so IMO.

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Kellan 100% has a good point here.

I want to be able to take out a bigger gun and or something more rare without the fear and guilt of loosing it. Once its gone, its basically destroyed and is nearly impossible to get your hands on something of similar calibre due to the players hoarding these items as they are not publicly available anymore meaning the prices of these weapons sky rocket to unrealistic numbers. To counter this it would be beneficial to add more of a variety of weapons to be crafted while also balancing out the recoil on weapons and the amount of ingredients (Gun Powder) required to make them.

In my opinion I don't mind not being able to rob police officers for their equipment especially with server >350 players you will have a lot of trolls with access to police stations and police radios. Although being able to take what the officer has confiscated eg, drugs, weapons, ammo etc would make for some interesting role-play as people will catch corrupt officers who possibly do not turn in things that they are confiscating and also giving criminals a chance at getting their items back.

Police Inventory Size - nullvariable 

During police raids most if not all the time police are dragging thousands of bags of drugs or thousands of rounds of ammo into their pockets (can be any item) like its nothing. It would be awesome to see police roleplay as if they are storing items in a police van going back and forth from the house into the van. Its annoying when you spend hours moving things or hours working on stuff to just have an officer drag all of it into their inventory like they are not carrying anything on them. I can you assure police do not have endless pockets in real life, duh.

Some suggestions to balance out police v criminals 

The option to resist arrest (Resist police cuffs) 

When police use their tackle function they also experience a rag doll effect

When police fail a tackle they fall on their face and rag doll as they expected a tackle but they missed so they would obviously fall on the floor right?

Being able to break out people from police cars while cuffed. Example - Animation for breaking windows and unlocking the door through the inside of the vehicle then getting the player out of the vehicle.

Adding a similar tackle function for normal players 

Harsher and longer jail sentences

Suggestions for overall roleplay quality improvement

Adding an animation for people receiving an item from someone (To stop people running upto people taking their weapons and driving off to avoid getting in trouble for non compliance of FPO)

Adding animation for people using their mobile phones in vehicles will give police the opportunity to fine people using their phones while driving.

Adding animation for using radios on bikes and cars. At the moment its impossible to tell if someone is using a radio in a vehicle there for sometimes even raising metagaming concerns as people cant prove that they used a radio or a phone to communicate.

Removing the job centre and all major collection jobs. Instead make specific items for jobs, eg buy a fishing rod from a store to do the fishing job, an axe and a tool box for lumberjack and maybe a machete or a knife for the butcher job etc etc while also utilising the third eye system for all of these. This will create a overall better roleplay adventure as people will have to actually find out in roleplay instead of looking at their map and seeing where does what. 

Revising crafting recipes and including realistic items needed eg a sawed off shotgun does not need acetone to be crafted instead you should have to use different types of metals maybe some rubber for the hand grip or even using glass for the scope attachments. It should be common sense to include these things in crafting.

Remove safezones. Safezones are roleplay killers and a escape for people who want to avoid hostile interactions. At the most allow people to punch on in safezones instead of allowing guns and knives.

Police being soaked up with banks and armour guard robbery calls 

I believe at the moment banks are on a couple hours cool down and amour guard is an hour cool down. to put it into perspective thats a total of 15 possible amour guards calls and 7 possible banks robbery's between 4pm restart and 7am restart

If the smaller criminal activities were more rewarding than what they currently are police jobs will be spread out more and will not be as repetitive as they are at the moment. Things such as robbing houses is basically a waste of time, selling drugs is also not very rewarding into todays economy compared to what it was a year ago, doing the vehicle theft jobs literally take money from your pockets to give you the same amount back, the feature to go inside houses between set times and rob them was also taken away from criminals. 

In conclusion criminals do not have much to do at the moment resulting in them either shooting police, robbing banks every day and or sitting at sharehouse being a bum, it would be greatly appreciated if criminals got a rework for once as there is not a lot to do at the moment for that side of RP. 

 

Edited by Flamba
Adding more things
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Just to reiterate things that admins have made public already prior to this without going over specifics that are not yet public. 

1) There is a planned method of RPed destruction of weapons which will result in the ability to intercept a weapon prior to its destruction. This will be done by a limited time event and is still in concepting stages and may not occur. This way police can continue to patrol without risk of being targeted on regular patrols and orgs have a chance to increase their stash. But the fear of taking out a big gun is something we want. It is a risk/reward situation, you save the big guns for the big and important jobs. 

2) Allowing a break out from police vehicles is not viable unless we can guarentee that at all times police significantly outnumber criminals and installing number locks on things typically angers people more then just not having the feature. Once you are caught you are caught you should be attempting to avoid being caught in the first place. 

3) We already have an animation for handing off items. 

4) Vehicle animations have very limited options some of these requests are not possible with current resources. 

5) As announced at the townhall and in various chats there is a 3rd eye overhaul of all jobs in progress by gatehead. 

6) If a person is hiding in a safe zone or running to a safe zone to escape a hostile RP then they are comitting a powergaming violation and our community assistance team should be able to catch up to them or a moderator if not. 

7) Drugs currently are the biggest earner in the city if they were done properly the overall numbers on them is significantly higher then it used to be as some people have found out and while the police are currently in the process of setting up their own unit to counter this the risk is almost non existent and certain members of the server have already earnt millions from this. (Keep in mind we are not planning to nerf the drugs simply to create the risk of having dedicated police for tracking it down). 

8 ) The insinuation that "it would be greatly appreciated if criminals got a rework for once" (Emphasis added) is unfair to the work the devs and Raari have done. Currently with each update cycle something has been added for criminals or expands the criminal side of roleplay. As was expressed by the community and was acknowledged by the staff team at the last town hall. Currently it is "civilian roleplay" that has been missing out and has not received any significant updates either procedure based or Mechanics based in recent times. 

Example: Since the appointing of Raari as Org admin 10 months ago the following is some of what has been added this list is not exhaustive but for cops it should cover everything as I copied and pasted it from their server updates discord channel:

Criminals:

- General optimisations and bug fixing. 
- Wars and wargoals added
- Org leaders given police leadership levels of responisbilities.
- A org policy guide with rules and privledges written and added for orgs with consulation over serveral meetings with org leaders and staff. 
- Bank cards
- The Org Blackmarket
- Changes to the regular blackmarket
- Weapon Crafting

- Armour guard heists
- High value vehicle heists
- Jewelry store heists
- A new prison with RP value
- Two drug reworks. 
- Delivery events
- Crews
- /Steal in both of its implementation phases. 
- Car chopping overhaul. 
- 4 new orgs, following the requests of the community evenly split between Streetgangs and Mafia/Syndicate style orgs. 
- Revamped court system with new magistrates and magistrate system with extended powers. 
- Extended prison sentencing (90/150/450/900 weeks depending on who it is and if you have a prior FPO)
- Fuel limits for police Airwing instead of having unlimited fuel. 
- Cuff nerfs so that police have to touching criminals and the criminal facing away from them or hands up for the cuff to work. 
- Removal of the ford ranger from 2 police divisions due to repeated abuse. 
- Bank phones so you can talk to the police with the new voice system easily and without risking yourself.
- Removal of court safezone
- Automated discord roster bot to make org organisation (I see what I did there) easier. 
- John Smith's Goods and Services shop for org "levelup" 

Criminals planned updates (No guarentees or time frames):
General optimisations and support. 
- Crew "reputation system" 
- Weapon destruction convoys and heist oppertunities. 
- Links to new job overhaul for crafting

Police: 
- General optimisations and bug fixing. 
- Several new vehicles
- A categorisation of charges into summary and indictable offences in their F6 menu. 
- The ability to pull people out of the water. 
- Fixing texture issues to allow police to resolve issues with the fivem updates that meant police were allowed 3 vehicles per division until resolved. 
- Police radio volume changes and effects. 
- Timer increases to the banks. 
- Policy changes allowing police to issue increased sentencing for repeat FPO violators. 
- Court changes allowing police to request FPO compliance orders. 
- Armoury logs for both police leadership and IBAC discords to track what officers remove from the armoury for both without needind admin intervention. 
- Migrated to new discord

Police planned updates (No guarentees or time frames):
- General optimisations and support. 

Civilians:
- General optimisations and bug fixing.
- TBT/RACV police tow jobs. 
- Non scripted food companies supported by Gatehead. 
- Appointment of Gatehead to take over the civilian and business side of the admin team to address the limited support they have received. 
- Rework to used car dealership. 
- New housing (to the limit our server can currently handle)

Civilians planned updates (No guarentees or time frames): 
- Job overhaul
- Business overhaul and expansion
- Links for orgs to require business overhaul items for their crafting.
- Interaction between jobs as multiple primary producers provide items to secondary producers for both legal and illegal items.

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2 hours ago, Lord Fury said:

1) There is a planned method of RPed destruction of weapons which will result in the ability to intercept a weapon prior to its destruction. This will be done by a limited time event and is still in concepting stages and may not occur. This way police can continue to patrol without risk of being targeted on regular patrols and orgs have a chance to increase their stash. But the fear of taking out a big gun is something we want. It is a risk/reward situation, you save the big guns for the big and important jobs. 

A great start which currently helps the gun issue (requires an entirely seperate discussion) - as it stands there are more "big events" than opportunities to acquire a "big gun", with the current meta of shotguns, the variety of weapons which is available (almost none) there are becoming less and less "big guns" available. We need more variety and blueprint balancing (Cost of GP,  APs are 11gp and ARs are 20?)
 

2 hours ago, Lord Fury said:

2) Allowing a break out from police vehicles is not viable unless we can guarentee that at all times police significantly outnumber criminals and installing number locks on things typically angers people more then just not having the feature. Once you are caught you are caught you should be attempting to avoid being caught in the first place. 

There is a huge problem of once you are caught you are done. The only possibility to get out of police control is to hold up a transport vehicle or an Officer during their arrest. This should definitely be a possibility but one which is rare and potentially expensive so it is not a frequent occurance. 

2 hours ago, Lord Fury said:

3) We already have an animation for handing off items. 

A lot of the guns have no animation and are able to be flashed instantly, too many interactions and roleplay scenarios have ended instantly because a gun was drawn and immediately shot.

2 hours ago, Lord Fury said:

7) Drugs currently are the biggest earner in the city if they were done properly the overall numbers on them is significantly higher then it used to be as some people have found out and while the police are currently in the process of setting up their own unit to counter this the risk is almost non existent and certain members of the server have already earnt millions from this. (Keep in mind we are not planning to nerf the drugs simply to create the risk of having dedicated police for tracking it down). 

Drugs are definitely not the biggest earner, looking over our spreadsheets of every drug we have sold since the drug overhaul they are actually lower money/hour. Additionally I have seen less people interested in the new system than the previous one. This new system is almost impossible to properly use as well when police have no motiivation to go on duty as there is almost no unique criminal RP going on, nor do any of the current systems support it. 
 

2 hours ago, Lord Fury said:

8 ) The insinuation that "it would be greatly appreciated if criminals got a rework for once" (Emphasis added) is unfair to the work the devs and Raari have done. Currently with each update cycle something has been added for criminals or expands the criminal side of roleplay. As was expressed by the community and was acknowledged by the staff team at the last town hall. Currently it is "civilian roleplay" that has been missing out and has not received any significant updates either procedure based or Mechanics based in recent times. 

The only major criminal RP which we have seen is a drug overhaul. Jewellery has been powergamed to oblivion and is honestly just used as a "smash and grab", bank heists have seen a RP improvement with bank cards (better experience for cops) , chop shop has been minorly changed by going on a rotation. Robbing stores has been nerfed due to unintended script behaviour, Armaguards are another avenue which is constantly being used and has seen no improvement other than adding golden meth. (Outside of these 4 options there is only robbing other players as a criminal money maker which in many peoples opinion is scummy)
 

2 hours ago, Lord Fury said:

Criminals:
- General optimisations and bug fixing. 
- Wars and wargoals added
- Org leaders given police leadership levels of responisbilities.
- A org policy guide with rules and privledges written and added for orgs with consulation over serveral meetings with org leaders and staff. 
- Bank cards
- The Org Blackmarket
- Changes to the regular blackmarket
- Weapon Crafting

- Armour guard heists
- High value vehicle heists
- Jewelry store heists
- A new prison with RP value
- Two drug reworks. 
- Delivery events
- Crews
- /Steal in both of its implementation phases. 
- Car chopping overhaul. 
- 4 new orgs, following the requests of the community evenly split between Streetgangs and Mafia/Syndicate style orgs. 
- Revamped court system with new magistrates and magistrate system with extended powers. 
- Extended prison sentencing (90/150/450/900 weeks depending on who it is and if you have a prior FPO)
- Fuel limits for police Airwing instead of having unlimited fuel. 
- Cuff nerfs so that police have to touching criminals and the criminal facing away from them or hands up for the cuff to work. 
- Removal of the ford ranger from 2 police divisions due to repeated abuse. 
- Bank phones so you can talk to the police with the new voice system easily and without risking yourself.
- Removal of court safezone
- Automated discord roster bot to make org organisation (I see what I did there) easier. 
- John Smith's Goods and Services shop for org "levelup" 

While everyone appreciates the work put into this - a lot of this is only targetted at Organisations and the structure of how organisations operate, the day-to-day living of criminal RP is suffering as there is such limiting options to do as a criminal. Some of these improvements benefits Cop RP additionally as it isn't a Criminal RP exclusive. Criminals are in dire need of more options to do other than Robbing (Armaguard/Jewelry/Shops/Players) and doing bank heists.

 

Edited by Catnip
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1 hour ago, Catnip said:

There is a huge problem of once you are caught you are done. The only possibility to get out of police control is to hold up a transport vehicle or an Officer during their arrest. This should definitely be a possibility but one which is rare and potentially expensive so it is not a frequent occurance. 

Thats good we don't want hold ups being continuous so it should be expensive. That is the goal with the currently balance of firearms and was the request of the community for several months. If you pull a gun it is potentially going to be very costly for you and it should be. So make the choice, is burning yourself to save someone else who is already burnt and just going to get a warrant for their arrest the moment you get them out really worth it? Plus all the aditional items you are going to potentially loose if you yourself get caught? 

 

1 hour ago, Catnip said:

A lot of the guns have no animation and are able to be flashed instantly, too many interactions and roleplay scenarios have ended instantly because a gun was drawn and immediately shot.

You have misunderstood what I have said here, the comment from Flamba was that there we should add animations for handing items off so that police can prevent you from handing guns over to prevent you from getting an FPO. I was stating that we already have an animation that shows people handing things over. If this is not functioning please submit a bug report in a ticket. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Catnip said:

Drugs are definitely not the biggest earner, looking over our spreadsheets of every drug we have sold since the drug overhaul they are actually lower money/hour. Additionally I have seen less people interested in the new system than the previous one. This new system is almost impossible to properly use as well when police have no motiivation to go on duty as there is almost no unique criminal RP going on, nor do any of the current systems support it. 
 

Again this is factually incorrect we have the raw numbers you can earn and the raw numbers of the system itself supports lower police numbers. Considerably lower then your average prime time police numbers. 

Due to a few orgs not being able to work out the new drug meta and ironically the crews who did figure it out earning significantly disproprotionate ammounts Raari arranged on monday to have a meeting with all the Org leaders tomorrow to explain exactly how the system works and we will be allowing the orgs to utilise that information in city. In short it promotes teamwork and specialisation over everyone being "special" but this will be explained to your org leader specifically and directly. Some crews earnt millions once they figured it out to the point we had to pivot and require police set up a special unit to start targeting these runs. There are several reasons your org in particular has been unable to make significant money which is why Raari will be taking the time to explain it to all the orgs to bring them onto an even playing field and likely from their it will sieve out into the general community.

 

1 hour ago, Catnip said:

The only major criminal RP which we have seen is a drug overhaul. Jewellery has been powergamed to oblivion and is honestly just used as a "smash and grab", bank heists have seen a RP improvement with bank cards (better experience for cops) , chop shop has been minorly changed by going on a rotation. Robbing stores has been nerfed due to unintended script behaviour, Armaguards are another avenue which is constantly being used and has seen no improvement other than adding golden meth. (Outside of these 4 options there is only robbing other players as a criminal money maker which in many peoples opinion is scummy)

Still factually incorrect, chop shop had items added to it such as reliable steel and plastic to make it valuable for crews to sell to orgs unless an org itself wanted to do the farming.

Armaguard did not exist and has had several changes since it was first dropped in.

Bank heists had four improvements, Value increases, bank phones, hacking the vault and bank cards. 

Jewellery powergaming I beleive was mostly resolved thanks to the work of two particular moderators and I think a dev based solution has been deployed or is being deployed. Yes it can be a smash and grab or you can stay longer if you want the RP/Bigger reward your decision on the RP you want to have. 

As for oppertunities to make dirty money sure, You can rob, steal or sell drugs and realistically you can control the amount and kind of RP you want from each. 

Do you want a police pursuit? Do a smash and grab and wait until you can hear the cops. 

Do you want a hostage situation? Do a bank robbery. 

Do you want to do criminal activity deliberately to avoid the cops? Get your crew together and grow drugs for an org or for a few other crews.

Do you want to engage in the underbelly of melbourne? Engage with the orgs and find tasks they can get you to do for them, Drugs could be a big one, selling steel or plastic. In the near future get your crew enough reputation and you get rewarded with the next cypher delivery. 

The exact words which we have taken issues with was the insinuation that "for once" criminals should get some dev time. Criminals have had a fairly strong market share of dev time for almost the last year. The idea that they havent is probably not the best thing to start saying especially infront of the Civs who have spent this time patiently waiting for their updates. We promised at the most recent townhall after a fairly significant amount of community feedback requested a shift away from criminal development that we would be focusing the following three months of a civ improvement schedule. That is what we have done, so criminals have spent 2 months not being the main dev focus and even then we have been making slight changes and updates for them as we go through the other side of things. Currently the Criminals almost have more scripting and resources dedicated to them then all three emergency services combined. 

I would invite some of our older community members who can remember even this time last year what the criminal scene looked like from then until now and to consider the sheer scope of changes not just from a scripting and dev point of view but a cultural point of view. 

I am not saying there will not be additional dev time spent for this as there most certainly will be and we are very open about that fact. But we have listened to the consistent complaints of the server in the last survey and as such we will be focusing dev time on the civs for a bit which fortunately does give you additional things to do if you are bored of the criminal life. You can focus on your legitimate cover for a bit. 

I would point out in my Reply to flamba a fair few things I pointed out are things we are already doing addressing his concerns or things we have announced. This was not a "we are not doing this" this was a "Hey here is the current situation, here is how some of your responses have already been or are already in the process of being addressed. Your comments that our devs do not do anything for the crims is false and not appreciated here is a list of changes and shows the overwhelming amount of support thrown the crims way compared to other services at this current point in time."  

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